About STUART EPPS
Stuart Epps' musical career began in 1967 as a 15-year old office junior at Dick James Music. He quickly moved up the industry ladder to become Chief Engineer at DJM Studios, then later toured the USA with Elton John as personal assistant.
Epps was involved from the start when Elton's producer, the late Gus Dudgeon, built The Mill Studios on the banks of the Thames, near Maidenhead. It was not long before Dudgeon asked Epps to become Chief Engineer, Studio Manager and Producer.
Some of Epps' most noteworthy clients have included Led Zeppelin, Eric Clapton, Chris Rea, George Harrison, Mick Fleetwood, Barry White, George Michael, Mark Owen, Cliff Richard, Twisted Sister, Brian Adams, Oasis, Kiki Dee, Robbie Williams, Bill Wyman and of course Elton John.
In recent years he has continued to work with big name artists to great acclaim, as well as helping a host of promising new and up-and-coming artists to sound their best, both on demo recordings and in full studio productions.
With decades of experienced garnered from working with the very best musicians at the top of the industry, coupled with a real love for music, Stuart has an intuitive knack for knowing just what will make each track sound most authentic, a deep understanding of musicians and their needs and a clearheaded, dedicated approach to getting the job done.
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Stuart Epps Toured America with Elton John, Produced and Engineered Records for LED ZEPPELIN, CHRIS REA , BILL WYMAN , TWISTED SISTER and PAUL RODGERS and is Now Focusing on the Next Generation
November 5, 2009 by Barbara Pavone
What do Elton John, Led Zeppelin, Oasis, Twisted Sister, Kiki Dee and Chris Rea all have in common? Yes, this wide array of superstars do share one thing in common: they’ve all, at one point in their careers, worked with Stuart Epps.
Since 1967 Epps has immersed himself in the music industry, stating out as an office boy at Dick James Music at the age of fifteen and going on to become a praised producer and engineer. He even toured America with Elton John in the early 70s as his personal assistant.
Mr. Epps was kind enough to call in to The Rock and Roll Report from his UK home for a retrospective chat about his marvelous 40+ year career.
Q: Going back to the very beginning, how did you get involved in the music industry?
A: I was in bands from about the age of eight or nine and one guy who I was in a band with, and I also went to school with, [clive franks...] got this job working for Dick James as an office boy. That was probably about 1965 or ‘66 and he use to come home with all these stories [...] that he just went to Paul McCartney’s house, he got the new Beatles album [...] all these stories were just magnificent about him and the music business and how exciting it was.
A year passed and he said that he was looking for his replacement so that he could be promoted ., I was only 14 back then and was probably going to stay at school for some years yet but I just thought, “Wow, this could be an opportunity.” So, I mentioned it to my parents who I just thought would say, “You must be joking, you’ve got to stay at school,” and my dad said “Well, you know, if you want to do it then go and do it.” I just didn’t need any more encouragement than that.
I went for an interview and got the job as office boy. It was an amazing time. It was 1967 in London, it was flower power and hippie time, and I was earning $10 a week, which was about $9 more than I’d been getting, so I was like a millionaire and getting these incredible jobs: go to Paul McCartney’s house, go to Abbey Road Studios. It was a great way to find out about the music business really. Even though it was the lowest of the lowest jobs, to me it was absolutely brilliant. Everyday was great and I could probably talk about that period for about six hours and we can’t really do that! [laughs]
Q: So you began as an office boy and then where did your career path take you?
A: At that time there was a bit of a natural progression [...] Dick James, it was a music publishers then, one of the biggest in the country, but it wasn’t a record label so you went from office boy to disc cutter, and then from disc cutter you could go in the studio and become assistant engineer and then maybe engineer. And I sort of went from office boy to disc cutter and then I started working in the studio.
At that time I’d also met Elton John, or Reg Dwight, [...] everything happened incredibly quickly. It’s incredible to think that I was there when I was fifteen and by the time I was eighteen I was on tour with Elton as his personal assistant in America. It was quite a big team of people involved in making Elton John into a major recording artist [...] and that’s what everyday was involved in doing really. I was [also] producing at the time. [...] They were unbelievably exciting times. It’s only now that you realize just how exciting they were. Everyday was amazing music being made and incredible bands and it was all very exciting really.
Q: Touring America with Elton John at the age of 18; what was that experience like?
A: I’d never been on tour before, I’d never been to the States, and now we’re embarking on a three-month tour [...] but the thing is it was all kind of new to everyone [...] we were all sort of kids in a way, experiencing it the same. So exciting [but] it’s still a job, it’s still work [...] it’s not all parties and groupies. There were a few, but not for Elton, you know, he was a good boy. [laughs]
The audiences in America and Canada were absolutely incredible. We’d never seen anything like that [and] I haven’t seen anything like that since, to be honest. They took him to their heart instead of just polite, you know, applause. Whopping and yelling: they liked to have a good time. Not like London audiences where they would sit there and see what’s going on, they really loved him, you know, they loved the band. And touring in America you felt you were doing something exciting, whereas in England you just got told you got long hair and get off the bus or something. In America and Canada you felt like a special person doing it.
Q: Was Elton John just as eccentric in those early days as he is now?
A: Absolutely. He was eccentric long before he was eccentric on stage. He was always eccentrically dressed, he’s always been a mad comedian; he’s got an incredible sense of humor. He was never ordinary. Ever. And he was always a larger than life sort of guy and as popularity took him he could just be more eccentric really. And the wealthier he got the more outrageous the costumes got. That’s what he loves to do; be outrageous. In fact, if he weren’t outrageous he’d be extremely shy and would not want to be noticed at all. There’s a lot of people in the business like that: they’re either going to be not noticed and be completely obscure [or dress up] as Mickey Mouse, which is what he did in Central Park [...] but that’s what you need to be a big star: you need to be a bit larger than life.
Q: Getting back to England from the tour, where did you go from there?
A: [Dick James Music] had a record label now and I was working for the head of the record label who was Steve Brown. So, we talked everyday [about] Elton John albums, sorting out album sleeves and more tours and everything to do with the band, and that’s how it went on to 1973. Then Elton and Gus Dudgeon, who was his producer, and Steve Brown decided to form a record company which was Rocket Records. I went to work there as well for the head of that company, so it was a big move really. Dick James wasn’t very pleased we all started leaving.
Q: How where the years at Rocket Records?
A: I was an A&R there and we signed a band called Longdancer who had a guy in the band called Dave Stewart who then went on to form the Eurythmics. We signed Kiki Dee, that was my next big project: getting her band together and getting her albums together, and I did that for quite a few years. In fact we went on tour, that was the last tour I did in America, in 1974 with Elton and Kiki’s support and that was an extremely big tour. We met John Lennon on that tour and John came on stage with Elton at Madison Square Garden’s [...] But then coming back to England [...] It was all not as good as it was. Steve Brown had left, he was the guy that I was really working closely with, and I don’t know, nothing seemed to be the same.
In the mean time I’d met a girl who lived in an ice cream van in Hawaii and I thought, “That’s what I want to do, I’m going to go and live there and sort of retire really.” Just before I did that I was sort of saying goodbye to everyone and then Gus Dudgeon said he was building a studio, the ultimate studio, and would I be interested in looking to see where it was going to be built [in Cookham][...] I just thought the idea was brilliant and it’d been a long time since I’d been involved in making records hands on as producer or engineer and so I just thought, “Wow, this could be great.” So I had to tell the lady in Hawaii that it was all off and I wasn’t coming. I then moved to Cookham [to the Mill Studio] and this was when I was about twenty-three.
Q: So you took on the studio job, how did that go?
A: I worked with Gus, became his engineer and worked on Elton albums again and we worked on Kiki Dee and we had Chris Rea , big hits with Lindisfarne,Voyaqer and Gilbert o'sullivan [but] unfortunately Gus ran into financial problems and had to sell it to Jimmy Page in 1980 .
Jimmy wanted to keep me on at the studio [...] I wasn’t a big Zeppelin fan, I mean, I obviously liked them and I knew all about them. Jimmy was quite a strange person; I didn’t actually meet him for three months when I was working with him. It’s like working for Howard Hughes a bit, you know, he really was eccentric and a very strange guy, but I became his engineer and after John Bonham died as a tribute to him we mixed, the last Zeppelin album CODA. Then, because of his connection with heavy rock, I then started producing artists for Atlantic Records, which were Twisted Sister, Vandenberg [...] that was all a very good period as well.
Jimmy also formed a band with Paul Rogers THE FIRM and we recorded a great album at the mill
another great project with Jimmy was the music for the film DEATHWISH 2
… Continued from Thursday, November 5th
Q: Over the years has there been one artist that’s particularly stood out as the best or most interesting to work with?
A: Definitely the main one is Elton: the most amazing songwriter and singer and all around artist and performer that I’ve ever met. But I’ve been very lucky; I’ve worked with lots of great bands. Jimmy Page was another one I learnt a lot from and Paul Rodgers is probably the best singer I’ve ever worked with [...] he made an album with Kenney Jones, the drummer from The Who, and they had a band called The Law and he’s definitely one of the best artists I’ve ever worked with. Not the easiest [but] usually the best artists aren’t the easiest to work with. Chris Rea who I worked with and sang with, I sang on backing vocals on his album [...] I’ve been very lucky. I have worked with Oasis, and I worked with Robbie Williams ,
My big hope now is to be able to [...] come across an artist for myself who’s in the early stages of their career that I can then use all my experience to help fulfill and hopefully make into a similarly big recording artist, which is what we’re trying to do with Kendal Sant at the moment. [...] You know I still love making music with people, still love making records, still good fun. Which is a bit surprising really because you think it’s something you might grow out of, but it’s still good fun.
Q: As you mentioned, now you’re focusing your attention on up-and-coming artists, how do you find them?
A: I don’t really look. I’ve got a twenty-four year old son Jonathan and he told me about MySpace and initially I couldn’t work it out at all, I thought “This is really peculiar”, but it’s been brilliant for me. Bands just come, you know, it’s a way of people getting in touch with me who wouldn’t be able to normally. So I don’t actually do much looking. It’s mainly people just coming to me and that’s how I met Kendal and I probably worked with twenty bands or so from MySpace.
Q: So when an artist/band approaches you are there any specific traits you’re looking for in order to say ‘Yes’?
A: What do I look for? Well, I would like it to be the next Beatles really. I mean, that’s what I’ve been looking for. If it’s a good project and if it’s got some sort of merit at all then I’m interested in it [...] unfortunately, there’s always something seems to be lacking. Whether it’s the songs or whether it’s their timing or something, but anyways its really down to the challenge of it as much as anything else. It’s trying to get the very best record that I can from what’s there.
Q: Who are some new artists that you’ve seen potential in and that people should look out for?
A: Well, the main one is Kendal, to be honest. And then, as I say, there’s some of these other bands that are not bad, but I haven’t come across anything sort of extraordinary.
Q: Having worked in the music industry for such a long time, what are some major changes that you’ve seen?
A: I suppose the main one is the internet, isn’t it? I could say that the recording technology, there’s been a lot of different changes [...] I started in ’67, we’re talking about forty years, multi-track recording wasn’t even invented. So, obviously, technically recording techniques have changed [beyond] recognition until now anyone can record multi-track almost on their wristwatch, let alone at home. So from a technology point of view it’s completely changed.
But the amazing thing is that, in a way, music has reversed. Maybe it got as far as it could get [...] from the 80s onwards it seems to have retarded almost, pretty much copying from the 60s. In some ways it’s a bit sad to think that there was nowhere else to go but back, but obviously from my point of view it’s an amazing thing because, you know, on MySpace every band’s favorite band is Led Zeppelin and ‘cause I worked with Led Zeppelin or The Beatles or, you know, they mention Elton or whatever; it’s like the music that I grew up with is just as valid, if not more valid, with youngsters today [so] I can relate to kids that are making music now very closely.
And then there’s a lot of things that are missing now I find. That’s probably why they listen to The Beatles or they listen to Zeppelin and they just think “Wow.” But the thing is that Zeppelin weren’t listening to Zeppelin type bands, they were listening to blues and stuff related to the early 50's[...] some of that music was also quite complicated and complex, that you had to really learn your instrument and it’s not so often you find musicians that have the same sort of standard and quality of the 60s and 70s, which is a bit of a shame. It’s a little bit more disposable now I think.
Q: Once you find an artist you’d like to work with, what happens next?
A: So before going to the studio I’ve hopefully heard some sort of demo of the song and then I might have ideas on that; the arrangement maybe needs changing or something needs changing [...] there’s normally something, otherwise they don’t need me. Whatever it is that needs improving I would mention, I would put forward, and if it’s fairly radical then we would probably have some sort of pre-production get-together and rehearsal [...] But there isn’t a standard to be honest. It’s not a standard situation ‘cause every band is completely different. And although its still Rock and Roll and its still Rock and its still music, you know, every band has their own dynamics and you have to just approach [...] every situation as to what’s required to make it better .
The main thing is that the band likes it. That’s the main thing for me, is that when we finish the session they just go “Wow, that’s just great. It’s better than we ever imagined it.” And obviously commercial success following that would be an added bonus, but the main thing is to get the product as good as possible.
Q: What’s been one standout moment as Stuart Epps so far?
A: There’s just been lots of them, and a lot of them have been in the studio when you get these magic moments when you’ve got Paul Rodgers and a band and they’re all playing live and you’re recording this song and you’re knowing that this is the master and that this is absolutely brilliant music being made, and I’m recording it and I’m just praying that it’s all going on tape and nothing’s gonna break down in that four minutes, or whatever it is.
Or, you know, [...] when I use to work with Elton and he’d play me a new song, or when Chris Rea played you a new song [...] and then definitely magic moments on tour. When John Lennon came up on stage with Elton and you feel that atmosphere from a 20,000 people auditorium, when your friend is playing to that amount of people [...] but I can’t think of one particular standout [...] but I still get a kick out of going to Elton gigs and there’s 20,000 people singing his songs and I can remember when I was listening to them as demos.
Q: So no plans for retirement any time soon?
A: Not really, no. I can’t afford to stop. There’s a lot of people around me keep saying that they’re retiring and I say “Well, I don’t feel like I’ve started yet.”